irwin 30 sailboat review

Review of Irwin 30

Basic specs., sailing characteristics.

This section covers widely used rules of thumb to describe the sailing characteristics. Please note that even though the calculations are correct, the interpretation of the results might not be valid for extreme boats.

What is Capsize Screening Formula (CSF)?

The capsize screening value for Irwin 30 is 1.88, indicating that this boat could - if evaluated by this formula alone - be accepted to participate in ocean races.

What is Theoretical Maximum Hull Speed?

The theoretical maximal speed of a displacement boat of this length is 6.9 knots. The term "Theoretical Maximum Hull Speed" is widely used even though a boat can sail faster. The term shall be interpreted as above the theoretical speed a great additional power is necessary for a small gain in speed.

The immersion rate is defined as the weight required to sink the boat a certain level. The immersion rate for Irwin 30 is about 166 kg/cm, alternatively 930 lbs/inch. Meaning: if you load 166 kg cargo on the boat then it will sink 1 cm. Alternatively, if you load 930 lbs cargo on the boat it will sink 1 inch.

Sailing statistics

This section is statistical comparison with similar boats of the same category. The basis of the following statistical computations is our unique database with more than 26,000 different boat types and 350,000 data points.

What is Motion Comfort Ratio (MCR)?

What is L/B (Length Beam Ratio)?

What is Displacement Length Ratio?

What is SA/D (Sail Area Displacement ratio)?

Maintenance

Are your sails worn out? You might find your next sail here: Sails for Sale

If you need to renew parts of your running rig and is not quite sure of the dimensions, you may find the estimates computed below useful.

This section shown boat owner's changes, improvements, etc. Here you might find inspiration for your boat.

Do you have changes/improvements you would like to share? Upload a photo and describe what to look for.

We are always looking for new photos. If you can contribute with photos for Irwin 30 it would be a great help.

If you have any comments to the review, improvement suggestions, or the like, feel free to contact us . Criticism helps us to improve.

The Irwin 30 is a 30.0ft masthead sloop designed by Ted Irwin and built in fiberglass by Irwin Yachts since 1976.

The Irwin 30 is a moderate weight sailboat which is a reasonably good performer. It is very stable / stiff and has a good righting capability if capsized. It is best suited as a coastal cruiser.

Irwin 30 for sale elsewhere on the web:

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Irwin Citation 30 (1980)

• Thread starter Massimo432
• Start date Aug 13, 2017
• Brand-Specific Forums

Hello everyone, Noobie here. I just purchased the boat for Live Aboard. It needs some work and upgrades but seems like a solid sailboat. I was wondering if there is a Manual I can get for the boat and a service schedule/maintenance list I should do first thing. Thank you  

Hi, I would really appreciate your help here. I did 2 "sea trials" and feel pretty confident, I was on sails for most of it and was ranging from 4 to 6.5 knots most of the times. I still have a couple of things I would like to review before the 10-hour trip I have to do from Homestead to Fort Lauderdale. The Motor is a Yanmar 2GM20F and I would like to do an oil change before the trip, even though I'm hoping to be sailing for the most part. I saw the previous owner left an oil bottle of Sierra Premium Blend (formulated for outboard engines) 4-stroke engine oil. SAE 10W-30. Should I use the same or other recommendations? As for the Transmission, should I check/replace any fluids? Thank you all and sorry for the Noobie questions. I'm a fast lerner though. Cheers  

Welcome Mazzimo. We have all been there. First. If you are sailing you do not need to do anything to the engine. But. If your going to run the engine it is a cheap cost to establish the start data for your fluid changes in the future. I changed all fluids and filters when I took ownership of my boat. Then I started a record. Now I know the history.  

An operator's manual for your engine should be easily located online. As to oil recommendations, check the manual, or call up your local Yanmar dealer and ask them for recommendations. Note that you will likely not get all the oil out of the engine, even when changing the filter. Also note that new oil turns black almost instantly in a diesel. Don't let that bother you.  

hollywood303

Hello everyone, I am a first time boat buyer looking at a 1980 Irwin 30; what should I look for? Thank you  

Hello. Welcome to SBO. I am to understand you sailed aboard a 46 and now you want your own boat. Simple reply. You need to look at everything. Sails, engine, plumbing, condition of the decks, electrical systems, smells etc. it is a 43 year old boat. Unless you just won the lottery you will need money to fix what is broken. If the boat is cheap or free, likely a lot of money. Then you’re going to need a place to keep it. More money. But the dream of sailing is a powerful aphrodisiac. So I suggest your hire a surveyor to help you determine if the boat is safe for what you want to do with the boat. The surveyor will help to assure you the boat is living up to the primary purpose. Keep the water outside of the boat! Good luck.  

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Sail Far Live Free

Irwin 28 sailboat review.

BTW - My 1970 IRWIN 30 leaked mercilessly at the deck-to-hull joint, found that the joinery was pointy screws which had worked themselves loose. Best practice is thru-hull bolting with nuts securing joint. [SAMUEL BURNS, Catalina 309 Southernaire, Alameda Marina CA]

Hi... I would like to ask if this boat(Irwin 28 mk ll)with the necessary Maintenance(bring up to date standing rigging, engine[new] New sails, and attention to old previous mentioned in this article Problems)would be capable to sail safely from Key West to Marina Hemingway, Cuba and from Fort Lauderdale to Bimini(Bahamas)? Your input would be appreciated. [email protected] Thx

Given the age of Irwin 28's, making a passage from Florida to Cuba/Bahamas will be more dependent on condition and the competence/preparedness of the captain and crew rather than the design of any one specific vessel. Having said that, I believe a properly prepared and maintained I28 would have no probably making either passage in light to moderate conditions. While she’s a good design, I would want a reliable weather window for crossing the Gulf Stream. If I were making a passage like this aboard an I28, I’d add locking mechanisms to the cockpit lazarettes to ensure they stay closed if the boat were to roll or get pooped. Also, replace the factory gate valves with proper seacocks.

a 28 would make the trip easy, my 31 used to make it all around the islands, she's a strong boat, and is built for sea crossings, billy 561-588-6222 www.floridaboatcaptain.com

I am a proud I28 owner.Great boat my wife and I love ours.Just big enough to feel safe and not to big so you can't handle her. I give the I28 a four STAR rating ****

Tommy - Thanks for reading and for the comment. I agree, the I28 is a great size and makes a nice family coastal cruiser.

Good to know, my wife and I just bought a 1976 Irwin 28 yesterday.

Congratulations! You'll love the I28.

Looking at buying one of these for Florida Coastal cruising.

Looking at buying one of these. I would be doing Florida coastal cruising on weekends. Your write up was very helpful, thanks.

Thank you! Your intended use (Florida coastal cruising on weekends) is exactly what the Irwin 28 was built for and excels at. Best of luck and let me know your thoughts about the boat once you've had a chance to try one out.

Irwins are better boats than many give credit for especially in the motion comfort and capsize ratio numbers. We loved our I32 sloop and she wasn't that slow as I out-sailed many newer model boats of equal length. If the boat is in good shape she can handle 25-30 knts winds with the accompanying seas well.

Forgot to mention sailed across Lake Michigan 80-100 miles many times so I can't see why you can't sail the 80-100 miles to Cuba from the Keys. Lake Michigan can be more treacherous than an Ocean due to the shorter wave lengths. I rather ride a 12ft ocean wave then get caught with 8ft LM waves.

Nice reading all the good stuff, and the other stuff I expected for an older boat. I saw one I28 where the hull/deck join was glassed over along the entire interior, along with some sort of core underneath the glass. I wouldn't think a core/pads would be needed, just a good fill and glassing over. I'm looking at one in two days, tiller model, with an A4. I'll be looking for soft spots on deck (ply core after all), signs of hull/deck leakage, and all the usual old boat stuff (leaking ports for example). Considering others (on other forums) sometimes say the Irwins aren't as good as say Pearsons, I've notice plenty of Irwins have coastal cruised safely as well as long trans ocean trips, which says many good things about the design(s) and the boat(s). Oh, the one I'm looking at is a CB model. I'm doing my research so to speak. Also, as a retired engineer/boat designer it's always interesting to read what owners of any boats I'm interested in have to say. After all, you folks know the truth about these designs, and have lived with the pros and cons for long periods.

Not sure if my last post made it on here. I have a 74 28'. I want to update the cabin and im looking for parts or ideas. The last owner did not keep up with the proper parts as I have plexie glass over my port holes instead of regular port holes. I want to restore this eye sore back into the beauty that she is and more. I was resently put out the army for combat wounds and this has become my oasis and stress reliever as I struggle with PTSD. I want to enjoy her for as long as she will float and could really use the help. Thanks James Watkins

I just aquired a nice Iwrin 37 MK I, (I think so.) I have been working in the vessel manufacturing business as a marine electrician with Northrup Grumman/hunington ingals; building ships for the US NAVY for 8 years and counting. Even though I helped build ships, I never owned one. So this in new for me. the Boat I have is in distressed condition as it was sitting for ten years. It needs complete rehabilitation. It was gutted before I got the boat. However, the wiring, ac/dc panels sinks and toilets/plumbing and also the engine remains. the bulkeads have been removed, and a post has been placed under where the mainsil mast sits.I want to get a bulkhead in there ( in fact wherever they are supposed to be) and get rid of that post as soon as I can but I need plans for this boat. (building plans.) IS THERE ANYONE who might be able to inform me where I can get this sort of information.wiring diagrams, plumbing layout, etcetera? I would be so very grateful for solid information. Thanks in advanced: DAVID

Try contacting Gene Gammon ([email protected]). Gene is a close friend of Ted Irwin and a former employee who now holds a lot of the historic info about Irwin sailboats.

In the event that its common Irwin construction I wouldn't go far......the hulls were dainty and the rudder support was assembled for calm bay sort operation...check the hull/bulkhead joints and you might wanna include a great deal of glass tape to hold them in.Normally plastic ports and casings that will break if hit excessively hard...a generally light built art.Irwin didn't assemble overwhelming boats.There was a second yard that manufactured the modest hulls,for the most part with a chopper firearm. -Kathy Hall.

I just purchased a 73 Irwin I have gutted the cabin and concerned about support for the mast inside the cabin. I'm not sure if there was something that is supposed to be in the cabin to support the mass

I've recently put my Irwin 28 sloop on craigslist - Mobile, AL. wiring,rigging,ignition system all new. It's been fun time to change.

I'm jumping in here on this conversation. I'm considering buying a I23. I know this conversation is regarding the I28 but does anyone have any thoughts on the I23 for a basic weekender?

This has been a very informative post and the thread that follows, too. I have owned 5 power boats over the past 22 years. living here in Florida. I'm looking to retire in the next few years and I always wanted to pickup sailing as a hobby. I will be berthing the boat in Fort Myers and already spoken to the harbor master at the downtown Municipal Yacht Basin. They have a 60 day waiting list for a slip. For the past several months, a 1975 Irwin 28 has been listed on Craiglist in Sarasota. It has no engine, but is equipped with an outboard mount, has tiller steering, roller-furling and needs a new cable for the swing keel - keel is in down position. From the scant photos of the exterior and the interior. The seller is asking 2400.00, but I am thinking 1500.00 given the work it needs based on his description and photos. This could be my weekend project boat to fix up, a learning boat for sailing and possible liveaboard on weekends while hitting the bars and restaurants within walking distance of the Yacht Basin. I would like some feedback on pricing and whether this is worth effort of restoration. Thanks in advance.

I have 4 sails for an Irwin 28.5 if someone interested [email protected]

Thanks for the great review. I've been looking at one of these over the O'Day, McGregor, Catlina, and other similar models as something to single hand. This is sort of a odd question, but is the same hull used in all model years of the I28? Sailboat data shows early 1970 models as 8ft beam, while later models have a 9ft beam (and some other different specs). I've noticed a few early models being spec'd with later model data when I look at them, but I haven't actually measured them.

I'm not certain, but yes, I do think the early Irwin 28's used a different hull. I believe there was a swing keel version initially.

How do you grease the gear chain for forward and reverse

I've read all the comments about the 28 . You've made up my mind I'm buying the 28 that I found . The atomic 4 is not running . But I need a project !

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Irwin Yachts

Boats from designer/builder Ted Irwin were offered under any number of Corporate names, since, the company found itself in bankruptcy any number of times. Despite this fact, it was one of the largest sailboat producers in the US. Irwin himself, had an interest in racing and a number of boats he built were sucessful in that realm. Irwin also built many models specifically for the Caribean charter boat trade. The Irwin 42, 52, and 65 were among the most popular. The best information on anything to do with the builder, designer, and the long list of boats built by the firm can be found at the excellent Irwin Yachts website listed above. Owners manuals for some of most popular models can be purchased on line.

Associations

• One Ton Class
• Half Ton Class
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• IOR 3/4 ton
• John R. Van Ost
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57 sailboats built by Irwin Yachts

Irwin 34 Citation

Irwin 41 Citation

Irwin 37 1 ton, irwin 28 mk iii.

Irwin 43 (1971)

Irwin 35 citation, irwin 30 competition, discovery 32-2.

Irwin 1/2 Ton

Irwin 43-CC MKII

Irwin 21 free spirit, irwin 40 citation.

Irwin 38 Citation

Irwin Avanti 42

Irwin 3/4 ton, irwin 1/2 ton mkii.

Irwin 40 MKII

Irwin 39 Citation

Irwin 43-CC MKI

Irwin 30 Citation

Irwin 43-CC MKIII

Irwin 32 Citation

Irwin 33 MKII

Irwin 31 Citation

Irwin 37 Competition

Irwin 28 MK IV

Irwin Mini-Ton

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Irwin 1975 24 10/4 opinions, info

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Not much info on the net that i could find.  

Sry I meant the 1975 25 10/4  

I'm sure you have come across these sites. Wow, that is one beamy boat (thus the 10'4"). IRWIN 10/4 sailboat specifications and details on sailboatdata.com Aft cockpit irwins and citations IR23-30 CIT30,32 IR43-60 navigation Duckworks - Making a Terminal Trawler  

I've owned an '76 Irwin 10/4 for about 15 years now, sailing on the sounds of North Carolina. It's a great weekender, big for it's size, the beam also makes it fairly stable. The cockpit is also fairly large, we have can get 8 people in there without too much problem. We've had it out in the sounds when we shouldn't have and other than us turning a little green, the boat did fine. She sails pretty good in my book, though I do tend to reef her early, maybe 15-18 knots. And she always seems to want at least some headsail out, just doesn't pull well with only the main. A number of them came with a 7hp diesel, Yanmar YSB8. This is a great little engine that I can't seem to kill given that it starts first time every time after almost 40 years, but at 7000lbs, the boat is a little under powered. On the plus side, I struggle to empty the 15 gallon diesel tank in a season and in NC my season goes pretty much 12 months a year. (62 and sunny this weekend) Course Irwin has the reputation of being an Irwin.. All the portlights leak. The mast step tends to leak, some of them came with the wooden mast compression post sitting in the bilge water, mine it sits up on a fiberglass pedestal. The decks are plywood cored, so you can get water intrusion. The centerboard can be troublesome (As can any centerboard) and the shallow draft makes for a smaller rudder that can get overpowered. You could probably say all of this for most boats this old. All in all, I love the boat for the way I currently use a boat. If you have any specific questions, I'd be glad to answer what I can. Rob  

rmjohns said: I've owned an '76 Irwin 10/4 for about 15 years now, sailing on the sounds of North Carolina. It's a great weekender, big for it's size, the beam also makes it fairly stable. The cockpit is also fairly large, we have can get 8 people in there without too much problem. We've had it out in the sounds when we shouldn't have and other than us turning a little green, the boat did fine. She sails pretty good in my book, though I do tend to reef her early, maybe 15-18 knots. And she always seems to want at least some headsail out, just doesn't pull well with only the main. A number of them came with a 7hp diesel, Yanmar YSB8. This is a great little engine that I can't seem to kill given that it starts first time every time after almost 40 years, but at 7000lbs, the boat is a little under powered. On the plus side, I struggle to empty the 15 gallon diesel tank in a season and in NC my season goes pretty much 12 months a year. (62 and sunny this weekend) Course Irwin has the reputation of being an Irwin.. All the portlights leak. The mast step tends to leak, some of them came with the wooden mast compression post sitting in the bilge water, mine it sits up on a fiberglass pedestal. The decks are plywood cored, so you can get water intrusion. The centerboard can be troublesome (As can any centerboard) and the shallow draft makes for a smaller rudder that can get overpowered. You could probably say all of this for most boats this old. All in all, I love the boat for the way I currently use a boat. If you have any specific questions, I'd be glad to answer what I can. Rob Click to expand...

Hello, I just spent the weekend cleaning up my new to me Irwin 10/4 much more needs to be done. The bowsprit looks great but the wood is shot not sure if the time to replace it is worth it on my list of priorities with the main stress pulling up on the cable that all looks solid maybe I'll wait on that. I'm also not sure about how to deal with the drop keel it needs to be re-cabled how do you paint in there? do you take the keel out? It looks like it needs more room to paint in there while it's only 14" to the ground. I'm a jack of some trades master of a few. I've had many boats but this one sure needs some help. If you have any links that could prove helpful that would be great. Where is the best Yanmar parts site? I have the one you have I think 8hp? the exhaust elbow is shot. I can't find a club or forum dedicated only to the 10/4? I sail in the Peconic bays on Long Island N.Y. My friend Invited me down to the race in his 32 Tartan out to Ocracoke. He's a Professor at Greenville college and keeps his boat east of little Washington on the Pamlico river. The last trip we took was to Bellhaven. Thanks, Roger  

Roger, Are you saying the plywood core in the bowsprit is rotted? Not sure how structurally critical that is. I have talked to another 10/4 owner who replaced the core in his bowsprit but though it would have held fine without the plywood as the fiberglass is pretty thick on it. And yes, a good part of the stress is up-down, but I would expect the jib to add some horizontal stress as well. I have had to replace my centerboard cable once and had the boatyard do it. The previous owner had a lady friend that could fit her hand up in the well and rewire it. The curse of the centerboard is that they are difficult to work on just in that it's hard to do any work up in the well. I will typically get the boatyard to lift my boat in the hoist and then go to lunch so I can paint the centerboard. Always makes me nervous being under 8000lbs swinging in the wind, but it seems to work, I normally don't get much growth on the centerboard. The Yanmar elbow is a pretty common piece to go, I plan on every 5 years or so. I get a number of parts from Mack Boring on the web, but I've always gotten the elbow from our local dealer here, Deatons Yacht. Typically I also get the downpipe and the exhaust manifold at the same time as they tend to rust into one piece. I've had my 10/4 out to Ocracoke, that's a 2 day trip for me from New Bern but a nice sail. Belhaven is on our list as well, but haven't made it up that far yet. That gets to be a tight sail for a weeks vacation leaving time for a weather window. My first sail, the one that got me hooked on sailing as a kid, was up on the Hudson River out of Kingston. Rob.  

Rob - Thanks for the great recap on the pros/cons of the 10/4. Shortynsalty - where is/was the 10/4 you passed on listed for sale? I might be interested. Thanks....  

There is a clean Irwin 10/4 for sale at our club in North East, MD, I think the owner is looking for around $3500. He was replacing the plywood in the bowsprit last week. Looks like a nice boat for the Chesapeake, if anyone is looking PM me and I'll put you in touch with the owner  

dfok, Did the 10/4 owner replace the whole piece of plywood is the bowsprit or just the the rotted part? How big a job was it ? Thanks Roger  

I sailed one a couple of times in the early 80's on the Chesapeake and was very impressed with her roominess and how well she sailed and handled in light winds. I remember that the centerboard pendant broke...can't recall much else but it is a compromised design in many respects. If you want a similar LOA boat that also has a lot of room consider the Nonsuch 26--very different from the Irwin 10/4 in many respects but similar in terms of room and beam.  

The pin holding the center board on my Irwin 10/4 looks pretty shot anyone have any experience with this kind of thing? How is it held in? If I tap it through should I maybe replace it with stainless rod with threads on both ends? Roger  

I had my centerboard off maybe ten years ago. It's just that stainless steel pivot rod that is epoxied into the leading edge of the keel. Mine had worked through the fiberglass on one side so no telling how long it would have been before the pivot rod wiggled out completely and the centerboard dropped out. I tapped it back in with a hammer and epoxied a flat washer on the end of the pivot rod to give it something to push against. That was a couple haul outs ago and it seemed to be holding. If you could find a rod that was threaded on just the ends that would probably work. I was thinking at the time that a long smooth shaft bolt would also work. I wouldn't put a nut on the other end. Just epoxy it in and the bolt head would give the fiberglass a little purchase to grab on to. There isn't much weight on that centerboard, so that shouldn't be an issue. I guess the other question is if stainless is the right metal. I understand stainless isn't good imbedded in fiberglass as it can't get oxygen. Having said that, mine didn't look bad after 30 years. Maybe it isn't stainless? Don't know. Rob  

Rob, I took your advice and after a new bow sprit, 1,500$ on 8 hp yanmar repair, paint everywhere port lights and a trip to Ocrocoke NC for a race that got canceled 1/2 way due to lighting wow what humidity great time though. Now I'm having the yard do the rest, stuffing boxes and some pretty rusty pullyes to the center board with luck we may just sail this year. This badly neglected boat has been quite a challenge . With lives curve balls thrown in. I hope we can keep in touch I've read your post a number of times it's the best info I have on this boat I really have great plans for summer fun on her. We sail great and little Peconic mostly. I'll moor the a few hundred feet from where Einstien kept his boat when he summered in Cutchogue. Hope you don't mind if we have a few more questions when we actually get in the water. Have a great summer, Roger  

Has anyone owning an Irwin 10/4 had a problem with the center of the mast moving forward and aft when motoring into a head sea? I notice that there is only a single lower shroud! I had a Columbia Challenger sloop years ago that also came with a single lower shroud. When motoring into a head sea, the middle of the mast would move forward and back! I subsequently installed double lowers. Rudy  

Rudy, I haven't noticed that on mine, though maybe I just haven't known to look. The mast is pretty substantial compared to some other 25 footers I've looked at. I think double lowers wouldn't be that hard to do and probably a smart upgrade. We had a 10/4 at our marine lose its mast during a hurricane when the steel I-beam the shrouds attach to gave way. That I beam is susceptible to rust and not easily examined. So lowers straight through the deck to each of the bulkheads would take some of the stress off that I beam. Rob  

A removable baby stay would be a more logical, cheaper and simpler way to stiffen up single lowers than changing to double lowers. It can be released from the deck and held at the mast until it is needed.  

Thanks for your input, Rob. We are thinking along similar lines. Rudy To the person who suggested a "baby" stay that could be removed and used only when needed, that sounds like a kind of "running" stay to me which would be rather cumbersome, in my opinion.  

Looking for a strong Coastal Cruiser with short Blu Water trip potential around $3K. Live on the Gulf Coast. 64 years old. SSDI fixed income of about $890 a month. Figure if I set aside 25% of income ($225) a month for boat maintenance fund, and figure $400 a month operating expenses, I can swing it. Would be using the boat as a "Liveaboard". Experienced sailor. This would be my fourth boat. Also a very cautious and careful boat captain. My main concern is the wheel steering. I don't have much confidence in chain operated wheels. Prefer cable (IMO it's way more reliable). Also, is the steel CB cable vinyl coated ? What do you think ???  

BTW. The outboard motor (IMHO) is preferable to an inboard diesel. If you run into rough weather, the first thing you're going to do is get the storm sail up and turn the engine off. Otherwise you'll risk burning the engine up. The engine is really only for moving the boat around in harbors and making short runs in very light air in good weather. I had a 23 ft. Pearson with a 7.5 HP outboard I sailed for ten years, and I think I only used the motor maybe four times. Brought the boat into Gulfport and Bay St. Louis "Dock-of-The-Bay" right up to the dock under sail power alone. If the approach was "tricky" or the rigging was damaged in a storm, I would have used the motor. In a good wind, there was plenty of momentum to carry the boat through the L&N RR bridges and the Pontchatrain high rise under sail. Also. Even in the States. Gasoline is way easier to find than diesel, and almost impossible to find in many places in the Caribbean. Something to think about while comparing outboards to inboards.  

The boat Dfok was talking about probably got sold sometime in 2015. Bringing it around to the Gulf Coast from the Chesapeake would be quite a trip. The wheel does look a bit silly. Also puts your head right where the sheet will want to take it off in a gybe. Nice shallow draft, though. Irwin's build quality is not generally viewed as exceptional. Might be better to look around for what's on the market near you and.... start a new thread.  

I have exhausted the search from Texas to New Orleans during the last three months, and locally, I've been able to find in the $3K price range are "ghost" boats (No title and expired registration) and worn out wrecks. One guy even tried to sell me a 25 ft. Bayfield on a locked dock with 2 years back dock fees owed. The boat was being "seized" by the marina as "abandoned" and unavailable for sale. He never showed up once he found out the boat had been moved to a locked dock. To find a "seaworthy" legal boat, I'll probably have to travel a very long way and sail the boat back. As i'm living aboard anyways, distance and time doesn't really matter. LOL  

I LOVE the 10/4 I should have bought onbe many yrs ago!!! very wonderful boat truly unique I bet it would sail pretty well without the cb  

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• Sailboat Reviews

Irwin Citation 38

The main reason to choose the citation 38 is sailing performance: she has the feel of a well-designed boat..

The “Irwin” in Irwin Yachts is Ted Irwin, a boat designer and builder who has been around nearly as long as production fiberglass boats have.

Over the years, Ted Irwin has designed, and Irwin Yachts has built, a variety of sailing boats—from flatout cruising condos to full-bore racing machines. Starting with the combination racer/cruisers that were then fashionable, Irwin began producing in the 1970s not only cruiser/racers like the Irwin 28, 30, and 37 one-ton, but also roomy center cockpit cruisers like the 37, 38 and 43.

The company has been consistent in the niche they occupy in the sailboat market. Their line has been known as middle of the spectrum, better in quality than the cheapest boats on the market, yet with low enough prices to make the economy shopper think twice before jumping for the cheaper alternatives.

In style, the Citations continue the moderate tradition of Irwin designs. The Citation models are all similar, fairly high-sided with very short overhangs and a low cabin top. The distinctive profile is usually accentuated by a dark sheer stripe that makes a sharp downturn to follow the reverse transom.

In all modern boats with flat bottoms, it’s hard getting good headroom without making the boat look ugly. The choice is to keep the sheer line low and attractive and use a high cabin house, or use high sheer and a low cabin top. The Citations use the second method and depend on the sheer stripe to keep the high freeboard from looking ugly. The sculpted cabin top keeps the entire profile low, with a high coaming flowing from the back edge of the cabin to the back of the cockpit.

A distinctive characteristic of the Citations is a complex swim ladder at the aft end of the cockpit. The ladder is molded into a section of the transom which opens up and swings down for boarding. With the rear end of the cockpit open, it is an effective ladder, but owners report that it is somewhat awkward and difficult to prepare for use. The owner of the boat we sailed described the deployment of the ladder as a “nuisance.”

As the largest of the Citations, the 38 is probably the best looking, handling the high-sidedness better than her smaller sisters. The boat has three windows set in the sheer stripe on each side, so they are not very noticeable. Like the other Citations it is distinctly modern-looking—not pretty, but not ugly either.

The company touts the 38 and the two smaller Citations as developments of Irwin’s custom racer, Razzle Dazzle , which performed very well on the Southern Ocean Racing Circuit. But they seem to us at best distant cousins of that flashy racer.

Though Irwin has never gone for super-lightweight boats, the production Citations are so much heavier that the comparison seems to be primarily a marketing ploy.

Hull And Deck

In general, Irwin uses conventional modern techniques in building the fiberglass hull and deck. The hull is a one-piece hand-laminated molding, using 24-ounce roving and biaxial fiberglass. Forward of the mast, the hull molding has a foam core—a design feature to provide stiffness and save weight. In today’s market, such cored construction is economically feasible if you want a stiff hull and can charge a price above the bottom of the market.

The hull is further stiffened and strengthened by the interior fiberglass grid which incorporates fiberglass stringers to support the keel, mast, and major components of the cabin interior.

The deck is also a one-piece molding, with foam core in the cabin top and walkways, plywood core underneath the winches and hardware. Hull and deck are bolted together through an aluminum toerail.

Standard keel on the 38 is a lead wing design drawing 4′ 11″. A conventional lead fin is available as an option, and the boat we sailed had the conventional fin. Both keels are external, bolted through the hull and the interior grid.

The shoal draft of the wing, saving 2′ compared to the fin, is an obvious advantage. We generally remain skeptical of the value of the wing keel, having seen some very poorly performing ones which were about as effective going to windward as a flopperstopper.

But Irwin apparently has enough faith in their design to make it standard. If we were never going to race the boat, we’d consider trying a wing, but otherwise we’d probably opt for the fin and pay the draft penalty.

The rudder is a conventional modern high-aspect spade driven by a 36″ wheel on a pedestal.

Exterior finish of the boat is generally good. The gelcoat does not have a high-gloss finish, but rather more of a matte appearance. This should be easier to maintain, making nicks and scratches less noticeable. The hull molding is fair, with no evident hard spots or ridges, and the deck molding is well done. The non-skid pattern is adequate, but minimal; it should be easy on bare feet.

There is hardly any exterior wood to care for—four teak grab rails and two plywood companionway hatch boards. The hatch boards on our test boat were poorly finished. A meticulous owner will want to finish them properly, or perhaps replace them with some higher-quality plywood, teak or plastic.

The rig is made in-house by Irwin and would generally be considered overbuilt by modern standards. The mast has two sets of spreaders and is stepped on the keel. The backstay is split to accommodate the fold-out boarding ladder in the transom, and the boat we sailed had single lower shrouds with a babystay forward. Halyards and other running rigging are internal.

Although the top quarter of the mast is tapered, the extrusion is so heavy that we had trouble bending it with the backstay adjuster. The adjustable babystay was also arranged in such a way that there was minimal pull forward, but we re-rigged it and were finally able to get enough mast bend to flatten the mainsail in heavy winds. It is not clear to us why Irwin uses an adjustable babystay rather than forward lower shrouds, especially when the mast is so stiff. Cruisers would more likely prefer the more conventional rig with double lowers, which would be somewhat stronger.

The boom and fittings are good quality, with jiffy-reefing lines and topping lift led internally from the outboard end to exit at the mast.

Halyards and all other running rigging are Dacron. Standing rigging is conventional stainless steel wire with swaged fittings, plenty heavy, but lighter than you might expect with the super-heavy mast. Shroud chainplates are set well inboard, with stainless tierods belowdecks leading to anchor points on the hull grid.

Handling Under Sail

We raced four triangle races on the Citation 38 to judge her sailing ability. In general, she proved to have good sailing characteristics, well behaved with no obvious flaws or other problems.

Irwin advertises her PHRF (Performance Handicap Racing Fleet) rating as 130 with the wing keel, 120 with the fin keel—roughly about the same speed as a C&C 35 or many of the 1970s one-ton racer/cruisers like the Irwin 37 and Morgan 36. However, the local handicap of the boat we sailed is 108, a rating she could sail to only in light air off the wind.

In light winds the boat sails exceptionally well. In heavy winds, she certainly sails well enough to satisfy any serious sailor other than the dedicated racer, but she will not sail up to her rating relative to other modern lighter boats. She is generally fast enough to make good, satisfying passages for the cruising sailor. But we would generally not recommend her to the serious racer since the boat sails to her rating only in one condition, and it will be a struggle to win with the boat in heavy winds. For the very occasional racer who cruises most of the time, she should be satisfactory.

Specifically, the boat is exceptionally close-winded in light air, and ran very well in all winds.

Reaching, she is sometimes a handful in a breeze, but overall she is a good sailer, typical of the best modern production boat designs.

We were surprised at the apparent thoughtlessness in many details of the rigging. While the hardware and fittings such as blocks, winches and shackles were all top quality, the way things were set up made for all sorts of problems.

For instance, the backstay adjuster was arranged with what looked like a clever idea. The split backstay was equipped with a typical double-ended block and tackle arrangement. To cleat the line, a tunnel was cut through the coaming so the line could be led to a cam cleat inside the cockpit. Unfortunately, given the anchor points for the tackle, the line bound on itself and on the block, creating so much friction that the tackle was almost impossible to use—we resorted to one person hanging on the line while a second took the slack through the cam cleat.

Similarly, the mainsheet traveler is well forward—a good place to keep it out of the way of people, but a poor place for getting good leverage on the boom. Unfortunately, the traveler hardware was set up so that it was impossible for a single person to move the traveler car in heavy air. Two people were required: one to pull up the boom by hand and the other to pull in the traveler control lines. Before the third race we replaced the whole traveler with a multi-part Harken system that made it possible, if not easy, to control the traveler.

There are a number of other details in the rigging—such as the fact that none of the exits from the mast or boom are labeled in any way—that indicate corners cut in rigging the boat. Fortunately, all the problems are fairly easily corrected by an owner, but it is surprising to see a boat with good sailing potential handicapped by this rather sloppy attention to detail.

Handling Under Power

The boat is equipped with a 27 hp 3-cylinder Yanmar, which is adequate for the boat’s size and weight, although it is certainly not an excess of power. The boat backs well, turns sharply, and is easily driven to hull speed by the engine. The cruiser addicted to powering at a knot over hull speed may want to talk to Irwin about a larger engine, though one is not currently offered as an option. Irwin installs the same engine in the Citation 35, which seems like a better match. The tank on the 38 holds 30 gallons of diesel fuel—ample for good cruising range.

The engine is located in the center of the boat above the keel, underneath part of the settee and the galley cabinet. With an aft-cabin boat, this seems a sensible arrangement to us, giving good access to the engine while keeping the weight centered in the boat.

Like many builders, Irwin continues the practice of shipping the boat with a solid two-bladed prop, a crude way of keeping the price down. Anyone who is likely to order this type of well-performing sailboat will want to get a folding prop immediately. Most similar practices—such as offering the boat without lifelines as standard—have disappeared from the marketplace, but this peculiarity continues with almost all manufacturers.

The low cabin house of the 38 makes the decks very usable, both for working the boat under sail and for lounging around. Furthest forward is an anchor roller beside the forestay, just ahead of an ordinary anchor locker to fit a Danforth-type anchor. The foredeck is wide and roomy enough to handle foresails. A big forward hatch in the low cabin top is usable for passing sails up and down.

The walkways are wide, with inboard shrouds, and the cockpit coaming is an easy step. Halyards and other control lines are led aft to the back of the cabin house where two Barient 17s are located. Small Dorade-type air inlets are molded into the cabin top just ahead of the traveler. The companionway hatch is off-center to port.

The cockpit is T-shaped, with comfortable benches and backrests. Barient 24 primaries are just adequate for the boat, but most owners will probably go for self-tailers all around.

There is a shallow cockpit locker on the port side, but the starboard locker is cavernous. We have yet to see a really good way of organizing these huge cockpit lockers, or of handling the oversize locker lid made up of the bench seat and part of the backrest.

The helmsman’s seat is peculiar in that it is removable as part of the process of folding out the transom ladder. Engine controls are on the steering pedestal.

Double lifelines, pulpit, and stern rail are standard.

With a 12′ 6″ beam and a 30′ 8″ waterline, the interior of the Citation 38 is enormous, but it is broken up enough not to seem like a cavern. Forward is an ordinary V-berth that should be good for sleeping or sail storage. There’s a small bureau and hanging locker opposite, just aft of the berth.

In the main cabin, a U-shaped dinette is opposite a settee which can be used for a berth. The galley is roomy, open, and quite workable.

On the starboard side opposite the galley is a good navigator’s station with a swing-out chair and electrical panel above it. Just aft of the nav table is the head, with entrances from both the galley and the aft cabin.

The aft cabin is quite roomy, made possible mostly by the offset companionway hatch and forward engine location. The berth is huge and comfortable, and this cabin will undoubtedly be one of the selling points of the boat.

In general, interior equipment is of good quality, with propane stove, 90-gallon water tank, hot water heater, a dozen opening ports, and good lighting. Like most modern boats, the interior seems set up for weekending, with very little real storage space. A long-distance cruise will require converting some of the space for basic storage.

The only other shortcoming of the interior is that it looks like a standard, run-of-the-mill production boat, with lots of veneer and plastic, finished a little crudely in spots. But, for a relatively low-priced boat, it’s better to compromise here than in the hull construction or mechanical systems.

Conclusions

Overall, the Citation 38 is a good boat that seems a little ordinary, generally representative of mid-line production boats. Though such a statement may sound like faint praise, it really isn’t.

The boat is not as well finished as competitive boats like the Pearson 37, but it is generally better done than lower-priced boats such as the Hunter, and the price is appropriately in between.

Why would anyone choose this Irwin rather than one of her competitors? There are, of course, the personal considerations of appearance and aesthetics. Many people will consider the Citation 38 better looking than some of her boxier competitors.

To us, the main reason for choosing this boat would be the sailing performance. She has the feel of a well-designed boat, unlike so many other contemporary models which get their performance merely by combining big sail areas, long waterlines, and light weight. This boat sails very well.

The other consideration, of course, will be price. You can buy cheaper boats and you can easily buy more expensive boats. To us, Irwin has kept the price down in the most sensible way—not by compromising basic construction or eliminating layers of fiberglass, but by going to conventional components and easy construction in the interior.

For the avid racer, the Citation 38 is too much of a cruiser—something like the J/35 would be a better racing boat. And for the pure cruiser more interested in room than in sailing performance, a boat like the center cockpit Irwin 38 might be more suitable.

For a serious cruising sailor who likes a boat that sails well but still wants the size necessary for cruising in comfort, the Citation 38 would be a reasonable choice.

RELATED ARTICLES MORE FROM AUTHOR

I like the article. An Irwin 38 in Redondo Beach is for sale and I wanted to research the boat a bit. Thanks

Is this boat a worthnes buying? How high is the head room in the cabin

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